Thalia Malaïka Urbani

Part 1: Introduction and Background

Blue Petties: Tell me a little bit about yourself and your identity as a composer.

Thalia Urbani: Sure, I'd love to. So I grew up listening to music and playing music. My father is very musical. My middle name is Malaika, which is from this beautiful song by Miriam Makeba. So, before I was born, music was kind of A huge part of my identity. I've always grown up singing, I'm currentlye studying classical voice at the University of Ottawa. 

Composition is also something that I’ve always loved doing, so I was really excited to start pursuing that with more seriousness; especially in the classical realm. I think it's a little more intimidating to me, so challenging myself in that aspect is really fun. To be able to see something come to life; especially when you have such wonderful musicians who are willing and happy to play your pieces, it's always such a gift.

I've fallen in love with the process of composition: thinking of an idea, concretizing it, and then giving it to someone who brings it to life. I think it's such a wonderful thing and I love exploring that. I'm always grateful when I have opportunities to do that, it's been a wonderful experience for me.

Composing classically is something that is still quite new to me. I've already composed songs for other events and fundraisers. In terms of one of them was for the 17 Sdgs, which is the 17 Sustainable Development Goals. There was one I wrote for my mom.

And I also helped write a song with the CEO of  VP Bank Switzerland. She had written a book for children on financial literacy and she wanted me to help her write a song about it; using the text from her book. 

So composing non-classically is something that I've been doing for a very long time. The Classical is kind of just adding to something that's already been there..

Blue: So the classical elements are building upon your experience as a musician already. 

Thalia: Yeah. And also growing up and being biracial, you grow up listening to a lot of different things from around the world. I think the music that you're brought up with influences how you experience music, and I think it also influences how I compose as well. So it's wonderful to kind of have this beautiful basket of music, become a synthesis of how you experience and write music.

Blue: I would love to hear more about that.

Thalia: My father's Italian and my mother's Rwandan and growing up, I listened to afrobeats, and some Italian folk and traditional Rwandan music; my father, loved a lot of Peruvian music and his father loved jazz as well. Both of them grew up around the world and their music taste is a depiction of that.

So just the vastness of what I saw in music, and thinking about what music could be for me, was very beautiful. It gave me access to things as a child that were huge opportunities because I don't think a lot of people get to grow up with that kind of diversity of music.

There are a lot of parts to my identity, and all of them influence my composition in a way that's conscious, and also unconscious. In terms of my philosophies as well, my identity influences my values and my philosophies and that, by consequence influences, my music

Blue: And when you talk about values, which specifically talking about?

Thalia: The one that comes to me right now, when you ask that question would definitely be the connection to land. I think that it's a connection that is very symbiotic, cyclical, sustainable, and renewable. And I think that knowledge is central to a lot of African practices and philosophies towards the land. and I think just like Indigenous people around the world, we have a connection to land that is very sacred and that influences how you live life because you see nature as something that is living; and that changes everything. Right? So, Just that perspective, influences how I write music. 

"I think as POCs learning to love ourselves is radical activism. And any sense of freedom that we give ourselves is radical activism. So, letting myself compose freely, and be a vessel; without the restrictions that society wants to put on me, is itself activism."

Part 2: Queerness and Music

Blue: 100%. And speaking about your experience in the classical world, have you ever felt that your identity or music has butted up against other people? 

Thalia: Yeah, but I think that's also just society in general.

I think as POCs learning to love ourselves is radical activism. And any sense of freedom that we give ourselves is radical activism. So, letting myself compose freely, and be a vessel; without the restrictions that society wants to put on me, is itself activism. I think even the way that history is taught and the voices that have been valued are reflections of, dehumanizing systems, so I think just actively being yourself is constantly fighting those forces.

Blue Petties: I love that; composition as a radical activism.

Thalia: Thank you. Yeah.

Also, I think is important because it's easy to let outside influences slowly, start dictating how you feel about yourself. And recognizing that those outside influences aren't you, and they're not your life, and you are your own person who can dictate your own internal dialogue. It's very important when you're fighting against those kind of forces.

Blue: Yeah, I know that oftentimes it seems like you have to be put into a box and you have to fit into what people think you should be like and what music they think you should compose etc. 

Thalia: The thing is, there is no box for anyone. It’s just that society likes to box, POCs and Queer people in boxes that are a lot more strict. So I think specifically, when you're marginalized, you have to be aware of that. It's not about belonging to society, it's about belonging to yourself. And as a consequence, you belong to the universe and to a greater community.

It's important to let yourself discover who you are with a lot of compassion and kindness in a way that really listens to yourself, and not who other people want you to be, because that doesn't really matter because it isn't you.

So I'm also a poet, and last year before my 18th birthday I had set a goal that for the hundred days before my birthday I would write and post one poem every day. It was really fun for a lot of different reasons, it forced me to find creativity every day. To the point where creativity and I had become kind of friends; I could tell when creativity was in my brain, and I could be like “Hello, I'm ready for you!”

Another one of the huge things I learned through that process, is that you can't tell it to come. It's about letting yourself be open to it. It's not saying “Creativity: come at 2 pm on Wednesday”. It's letting go of wanting something, and just being ready to accept it. That's a huge thing about creativity, it's not about sitting down and saying, I'm gonna write something great. It's about tapping into yourself, seeing what works, and just listening to the creativity that comes to you.

Blue: My question to you is where do you think you get the most creativity from?

Thalia: Being present. I think that's so important because I learned how to be mindful and present. It makes you realize how miraculous life is, and then everything is an inspiration because then it's like, wow, I used to be stardust and now I can breathe. 

Yeah, but you know what I mean, just being present; and that can happen anywhere. So, I think my main source of creativity is being present and listening to my feelings.

Blue: Listening to what you're feeling is super important, especially in a world where we're told to always be productive, and always be 100%.

Thalia: And I think there's so much ancestral knowledge that our bodies hold as POCs. Tapping into what our bodies are telling us is also radical activism.

"For Queer Pain, it starts and ends with the pianist playing these huge tone clusters in a way that's very percussive and march-like. For me, that was the steps of everyone that we've lost because of Queerphobia, homophobia, and Transphobia. All of the people that we've lost, it was all of them, kind of walking together and marching together. I wanted, this sonic experience of people hearing them, because they're a part of the community, and I think that the pain we carry stays with us. I wanted people to hear that they walk with us."

Part 3: Through the Spectrum (2023)

Blue: Yeah. I agree with that one. I would love to kind of switch gears a little bit and talk about Through the Spectrum. 

Thalia: So one of my wonderful friends who's amazingly talented and, just a wonderful human being in general, Gabriela Comeau Gort, she started this organization called Voices Unheard and she had asked me to write a piece for Pride Month. And I really thought about “What did I want to give to the queer community?” and I didn't want to necessarily just write about Queer pain because I think there's a lot of that out there.

I wanted to write something that recognizes the pain of the community so that when people listen to the peace, they have a safe space to grieve in terms of the present, the past and the future. 

And I wanted to write a piece that was fully just in the space of love. So that you have the pain and you have the love. I thought that was very important to have a balance of both. So that was where the idea from, and that's why both of the pieces - one is called Joy and one is called Queer Pain and I start with specifically the Queer Pain and there's spoken word that I wrote called “Everything is Love” that then transitions you into the QueerJoy. So for me, it's very much a cyclic process and that's what I wanted to create.

Blue: I love what you said about how you're highlighting the cycle between pain and joy. A lot of times in life, one cannot come without the other.

I also love what you said about how it's often that we see voices centring, Queer pain and Queer suffering, and you’re kind of just saying no to that. You're trying to integrate it with love and joy and bringing those aspects to the front.

Thalia: Because joy is healing and I think as marginalized people, it's a huge privilege that isn't always guaranteed to have a place where we feel safe and loved. So writing a piece that was that space was very important to me. If I was going to write a piece about the pain, I had to write a piece that was just goodness.

Blue: Was that something that was conceived in the beginning? Did you know, you would have three distinct parts including a linking spoken word section in the middle?

Thalia: I knew there was gonna be joy and pain. The middle part - I actually had written during my hundred of poems project. I wanted that one specifically because I thought that the pain is quite intense and I didn't want to just be like “Okay, here's this very painful reality let's sing about something else.” I wanted to give a moment to kind of just digest that. 

I think a lot of deep pain is rooted in love. We grieve because we love right? So I thought using that one specifically would have been a good bridge to kind of connect those two.

Blue: I think that's really, powerful and effective.

Thalia: Thank you.

And one little thing that I think is quite fun, in terms of Queer Joy is this kind of simple ostinato that's just one note that stays from the beginning towards the end and for me, that was the heartbeat. Everything else in the piece stems from that heartbeat.

Blue: I love that. Would you like to share any other Easter eggs that are within the piece for folks?

Thalia: For Queer Pain, it starts and ends with the pianist playing these huge tone clusters in a way that's very percussive and march-like. For me, that was the steps of everyone that we've lost because of Queerphobia, homophobia, and Transphobia. All of the people that we've lost, it was all of them, kind of walking together and marching together. I wanted, this sonic experience of people hearing them, because they're a part of the community, and I think that the pain we carry stays with us. I wanted people to hear that they walk with us.

Blue: That is beautiful.

Thalia: Thank you.